More of John Duke’s World

January 18, 2010

Enjoy the second part of the interview with John Duke, the man who brought back Triathlete Magazine from the verge of bankruptcy. The outspoken Duke recently left Competitor Group when his role there was changed.

ST: Back to the early days of Triathlete Magazine. Isn’t it pretty rare to have a publisher shaping editorial? There is an invisible wall in the top newspapers and magazines.

John: I had the benefit of being the CEO of the company. When I took over I improved the content. I also had a good partner – TJ Murphy who worked with me on and off with me from the beginning. We always had a similar vision. And then I developed a great crop of young guys like Jay Prasuhn and Brad Culp. I hired Brad right out of college. He worked one summer as an intern at Triathlete in San Diego in Encinitas. He was from Miami of Ohio and came to us the summer of his junior year and told him to finish his senior year and come back. He did and he was great. Within two years he was editor of Triathlete.

ST: Do you think your close relationship with advertisers served the magazine?

John: Obviously that helped me sell ads but I was always keen to keep pandering to a minimum. When something was out of line in the book, my friends (the who’s who of the sport) held me accountable. When we made a mistake, or did wrong, they blamed John Duke. One very classic mistake was while I was still consulting with Reebok. Matt Fitzgerald, one of the best writers I have ever worked with, did an interview with Michellie Jones.. I had just signed her with Reebok – and Matt misspelled Reebok throughout the whole story. I went ape shit and made him walk around the office with “Reebok” printed on his forehead in Magic Marker for a day. I took a lot of crap for that. The magazine was already printed. I canceled all the comp copies to Reebok headquarters and burned the rest.

ST: Do you continue to be a triathlete at age 50 and beyond?

John: You saw me at Kona a few years ago. (He finished in 11:30 or so) I came back and I still do compete. I still love racing and training. I work out 2-3x a day, when I can. I have not raced since I sold Triathlete. With all the new challenges and responsibility at Competitor Group, I was not able to train much as I liked. I did not want to compete just be a finisher. I like to be competitive, so I just chose not to race the last two years.

ST: What was your best Ironman performance?

John: My best was 10:04 at the 1989 Ironman. That was the year of the Iron War. In my little world the most significant thing that year was my 10:04. And next to that was Mark and Dave’s race… at least that's what I continue to remind all my buddies in Encinitas. With that race, I got bragging rights over Murphy Reinschreiber, whose best at Kona was like 10:38. He was a damn good athlete, a collegiate swimmer – a much better athlete than me. But I had a great day. When Murphy and I are 85 years old and having Christmas dinner at the Sizzler, I will be telling him I own him at Kona.

ST: Whose idea was it to remake Inside Triathlon in the style and focus of Surfers Journal?

John: In all honesty I must give credit to Scott Dickey. He is the COO of Competitor Group. We looked at a variety of things to do. We were going to make it an all training magazine. I wanted it less approachable to all triathletes. A landing point for the more experienced athletes. Dickey proposed something more like Surfers Journal, and TJ Murphy and I embraced the idea and ran with it. It was a collaborative effort. As soon as Dickey said it, we got it. But most of the credit goes to Erica Krystek, the art director we hired. She is brilliant and did a wonderful job with the re-design. She developed the look, the feel and the style points in the magazine. TJ has a good nose for good journalism. And we also had a great photo editor, TJ’s brother Robert. I’d love to take 100 percent credit, but nothing is ever done 100 percent by one person with a project like this.

ST: Why did it catch on?

John: Because I believed in it. At Interbike in 2008, I gave an Academy Award-winning delivery in the presentation to advertisers. I pitched the thing with evangelistic zeal. I believed in it that strongly.

ST: What did you do in the two years you were at CGI?

John: My primary responsibility was to bring together all of the print properties, eliminate redundancy and find economies of scale. Once we accomplished this (a very painful process) I managed the day-to-day operations of the books.

ST: What did CGI pay for Triathlete? Some rumors had it at $10-12 million.

John: They paid a very fair price for Triathlete. I won't comment on the price, but I will say that Triathlete did deliver what was promised when we sold.

ST: How did all the magazines do last year?

John: In terms of profit and loss, they all made a profit. Actually in 2008, the first year they co-owned it, Triathlete had the best year ever in the history of the magazine.

But 2009 was a tough year. Thanks to budget levers of price and expense controls, we did meet the Triathlete budget goals of profitability. Because of the timing of my departure, I did not get to see the December year-end P&L. But in November, we were ahead of our projected budget for 2009, which I feel was miraculous under the market conditions.

ST: How did you feel when they told you that you would no longer be running the magazines?

John: Absolutely shocked. It was like having the wind knocked out of me, I fantasized about that for all of 2009. Things were not going right as far as ad sales go. I knew that the buck stops at my desk. I always wondered: ‘God would they fire me?’ I could not fathom that. But when I got the news they were going to take me off magazines on Monday December 15, at 1:30 PM, I felt pretty dazed. I didn’t see it coming in any way whatsoever. Now that I have had time to reflect I understand their reasoning.

ST: What did you come to understand about the move?

John: I believe I ran Triathlete in my own fashion as my own business. It was not by any means the same as the culture as CGI wanted. They were trying to build an integrated platform and an integrated business. The media division I ran was sort of like the unruly kids in room 2. You remember in grammar school the honor students were in one room and there was a food fight in the next room. We were having the food fight. We got it done in our own fashion. Brad Culp would wear board shorts and flip flops. I managed all the titles that way. I felt we were in a lifestyle business, so I wanted everyone to have a lifestyle. When they wanted to bring in a culture that was all business, they needed some sort of containment of that kind of attitude. I did my best, but ultimately I was a square peg in a round hole. I was not from the East Coast. I was not educated in the Ivy League. I have always made decisions based on what I was feeling and what was in my heart. In most cases I have been right on. But that does not necessarily play in corporate America and obviously it did not play at the Competitor Group. I do not find fault with them. They bought the magazines and it is their right to run it as they wish.

ST: How does it feel to lose your magazine?

John: To not have Triathlete hurts. I was my baby. When I walked away, I certainly felt loss. CGI offered me virtually the same amount of money for the new job of consulting on their new sprint triathlon series. It was a very fair offer. Most of your readers would think I was insane not to take that money. But it was not just about money. Sprint racing? Right now I own a sprint race – the Encinitas Triathlon. But that is not where I’m at. While Competitor Group is building a sprint series to open up to a broader audience, I am probably too core for that.

ST: What about being cut off from the people you groomed?

John: That was another factor in me not taking the job. I felt I could not come to work every day and see former coworkers and employees and feel impelled to criticize the direction they took Triathlete. I did not want to interfere with what CGI was doing. But I doubt I could avoid it if I was working nearby. It’s like if you get divorced and you see a new step parent raising your child. You will always find fault with it.

ST: What is happening now? The rumor mill is overflowing. You’re going to form a new magazine. You want to destroy them as you did with Felix Magowan. What’s the truth?

John: I do not have anything going on. I don’t know what I will do. I will find something because I will need to be involved. But I will wait until I find the right thing. At this stage in my career, the next 15 years are it. I will build the right thing.

ST: A lot of people assume you want to take CGI down? Given your self described nickname – The Devil – are they crazy?

John: That might be some people’s assumption. But you have to remember that would be like asking me to destroy my baby. Again, Competitor Group bought Triathlete magazine and paid a fair price. I got enough to pay off my second divorce, and buy myself a new sports car. I have no malice toward them.

ST: What about the recent exodus of key employees Sean Watkins (sales), Jay Prasuhn (senior editor), John Segesta (photographer) and Brad Culp (Editor of Triathlete). Do some publishing people underestimate the value of knowing the sport from the inside out?

John: Sean, Jay and Brad left of their own accord. Segesta did not leave of his own volition. He had already had a working relationship with H3’s road cycling magazine and had a difficult time managing that with CGI’s ownership of VeloNews. Sean, Jay and Brad are John Duke students. Their careers in triathlon media started under my tutelage. They too were square pegs in round holes at CGI. They worked for me prior to CGI and going on board with the corporate thing was very difficult to for them.

So they went on their own, I knew Brad had been interviewing with ITU. Jay surprised me. Sean Watkins talked to me in Kona about leaving; I tried to talk him down, but he wanted to be close to his daughter who lives in the LA area. So he formed his own company: He is doing athlete representation and sells expo space for the WTC as a consultant.

ST: How was it merging of cultures from the beginning?

John: It was very difficult for some and easy for others. All of the businesses purchased by Falconhead were entrepreneurial and everyone had their own way of doing things. We had to adopt best practices in all instances. Some people embraced it but some clung to their old ways. I must say it was one of the most interesting times of my life.

ST: Did you encourage them to leave?

John: It would be very flattering to think they did that for me. But that’s not true. I just want the best for them, they are lifelong friends now. They helped me create the magazine I loved. They are like children to me–of course, you might think of them as the children of the damned. I created these monsters. They have developed their own skill sets and personalities within the industry and will continue to be valuable assets to whomever they work for. Just don’t make them wear long pants.

ST: Most people think you are plotting to launch another magazine?

John: I don't know. It is too early to say. I will do something that will engage me in the niche of triathlon. I could not fathom doing a thing that I would not be involved in a very core triathlon space. I will be involved in the multisport business.

ST: So what is it like now?

John: I have nothing to do. It is amazing not getting up and going to an office. I have a steady girlfriend now for the first time in six years. I was always gone when she met me and now I have been around the house for month. I am sure she is ready for me to go back to work and leave her alone.